- 1.0 July 2019
- Certainly like Inglourious and somewhat like Django– this is Tarantino’s correction– to rewrite the collective tragic historical past. Like Pulp Fiction does with the structure of the film with Travolta (and does literally with the OD of Uma)—it resurrects a character (in this case Sharon Tate (played by Margot Robbie)). It also resurrects the dying career of Leo’s Rick Dalton. I think it’s telling that Tarantino chooses these two characters here- Rick and Cliff (an actor and stuntman)- to rewrite history, save Tate, etc. Tarantino doesn’t have an old loved actor to resurrect here like Grier, Carradine, Travolta—he resurrects Tate and an old TV show he loved—an entire town and era and time really
- I am confident that is, yet again, another major accomplishment for Tarantino (my #44 auteur of all-time already) Pitt (my #23 actor of all-time) and DiCaprio (my #20). Pitt’s cool stoic minimalist no bullshit side-kick is pitch-perfect and DiCaprio’s Rick is as complex a character as he’s played and he pulls it off—and he played (and was terrific) as Howard Hughes
- An incredible achievement of mise-en-scene for Tarantino, the production design and set design– easily his best work in this department. It contains believable color-saturated production design– or deliberate color motif- almost like the Kieslowski color trilogy or Cuaron’s 90’s work just soaked in the color green—production designer Barbara Ling doesn’t have much of a resume—but Nancy Haigh does and this is the first collaboration with Tarantino- Haigh worked on AI with Spielberg, Bugsy (Oscar win and another detailed Hollywood period piece), Road to Perdition, a ton of Coen brother films— they yellow choice here is important to the film’s artistic achievement. The wolf brand dog food, the shirt(s), car, the yellow album cover, Pitt making yellow Mac and Cheese (absolutely a choice), the Dean Martin “Wrecking Crew” poster—these are all choices

- The film has really a three part structure. We start with a day-in-the-life of the three leads- Pitt, DiCaprio and Robbie’s Tate. There’s not a ton of the typical rat-a-tat dialogue from Tarantino here. It luxuriates in his astonishingly and lovingly-recreated 1969. The posters, billboards, local tourist landmarks, great Mexican restaurants and institutions. Small town-ish almost. It is indeed a memory-piece as Tarantino said it was in comparison with Cuaron’s Roma (as Cuaron meticulously recreated entire streets and structures)… driving in cards, hanging out, establishing character—marking the end of an era— slowly and surely—again, much of it is without dialogue (very un-Tarantino)—particularly the Robbie/Tate thread. There are tangents galore in this day-in-the-life—the Bruce Lee fit flashback, the Great Escape dream cutaway (which I don’t love either)—it’s cool to see DiCaprio in the McQueen role—but it would be far more gut-wrenching to stay on DiCaprio’s face as he talks about the sliding door role that never happened and changed the trajectory of his career
- The second structure is the Italy section with Kurt Russell’s voice-over. I think structurally it is fine as it’s marking the passage of time before the third act which is 6 months later. I don’t love that our narrator is Kurt Russell—who plays a minor character in the film—and he’s giving us information that is not from that character’s point of view or knowledge. It’s a little messy. I especially hate his early “That’s a lie” when Leo’s Dalton fibs about his car being in the shop.
- I also don’t like that the voice-over is telling us what these actors can easily be told by Pitt and DiCaprio without dialogue. I don’t need a voice-over telling me “these guys are lost and don’t know what they’re going to do next”
- In many ways it’s his least likely to win the best screenplay Oscar even though it is an excellent flow. But I think the Tarantino film most likely to win production design (note– it did win this!).
- There’s so many cinematic references—so much fun to get lost in Tarantino’s homages and influences though here I do think he’s making a point to stick closer to 1969 as a document or reality in comparison with his previous works which were more eclectic—much of what appears on the billboards and what’s playing at the movies is what actually played. I don’t think Franco Zeffirelli Romeo and Juliet was an important influential text for Tarantino
- Extremely metatexual—Timothy Olyphant (who was a “future star” in 1999 and auditioned for roles, amongst others, like Downey’s Tony Stark for Iron Man) telling Leonardo DiCaprio “man that’s a tough break” about a role that DiCaprio’s character went for and didn’t get that could have made him a star… is… well…wild
- I’ve gone a long way here without mentioning just how damn funny this thing is. Both Pitt and DiCaprio – incredibly funny– “my booze doesn’t need a buddy”
- Unlike most of QT’s work we have false starts here – this is more description than evaluation but the entire Spahn Ranch/Bruce Dern scene (which is excellent) – is one big formal foreshadow to the epic conclusion. Within that scene the editing as Pitt and Dakota Fanning go back and forth— magnificent. Canted angles.
- The third section of the film is after we get back from Rome—the big night August 8, 1969 — 6 months later
- It’s a linear narrative— and unlike the bulk of QT’s work—there’s no revenge narrative carrying us along the way. Again in many ways this level of floating through the threads (albeit linear here) is Pulp Fiction
- Tarantino is in love with Hollywood as an industry— it’s infectious

- I hate comparing films to masterpieces but we’re talking about Tarantino here—it’s worth noting this is not the cinematography (camera movement) showpiece that say Boogie Nights is (also a love-letter to an industry, an era). We may be floating around introducing characters and strands—but yeah—not like this
- It is also completely BS that it’s taking me this long to get to this but one of the greatest strengths of the film is the sliding doors theme driving (floating may be better than “driving”) our narrative. It’s chance—I wouldn’t call it fate like the Coen brothers—again this is the closest work to Pulp Fiction in this regards. DiCaprio’s Rick was this close to stardom, he just needs a break and he lives next to Roman Polanski. He just missed on the Steve McQueen Great Escape role—what would have happened? What would have happened if the Manson family goes one house over… history is different and Tarantino resurrects Tate, has our two heroes, in a very Tarantino- violent/funny fashion kill them, and we get the sweet ambulance scene with the two buddies and the sliding doors coda as Tate invites Rick in for a drink
- A shot of the colors at LAX like Jackie Brown, Point Blank
- No chapters…… I didn’t catch other QT trademarks like the 360 degree shot, the trunk shot or the split diopter— we do, however, have QT’s feet fetish in full effect- it’s all over the place here with Robbie and Margaret Qualley

- I mentioned Cuaron’s Roma and how entire streets were built to get the detail right- again we’re in such good hands with QT– the radio, posters, establishing shots of recreated buildings—I think another comparison could be Spike Lee’s studio backlot remaking of Brooklyn for Do the Right Thing—or even that we have much of an entire film here playing out like Jack Rabbit Slim’s “Wax museum with a pulse” restaurant set piece in Pulp Fiction
- Another “problem” I had is that horrible opening to the film. Some will say this is nit-picking and yes, it’s unfair to compare any film to great films but we’re talking about Tarantino and if you compare the black and white television interview here as our toothless opening with the Madonna conversation as we shift around the table at the diner in Reservoir Dogs, the Tim Roth/Amanda Plummer jaw-dropping scene with freeze-frame in Pulp Fiction, the tracking shot of Pam Grier in LAX, the black and white “masochistic” scene in Kill Bill, “the Once Upon A Time In Nazi Occupied France” from Inglourious…. Well, this kind of sucks
- “richly evocative, conceptually jaw-dropping, excessively
foot-fetishizing, inescapably terrifying and unexpectedly poignant
movie”. – Los Angeles Times- Justin Chang
2.0 August 2019
- upon second viewing the formally earned emotional connection is stronger. Instead of laughing at the “great f*cking note” scene and the trailer whiskey sour scene with DiCaprio I had an emotional response. It’s an impeccably crafted (and yes, funny) character by Tarantino and Leo
- It didn’t feel as tangential the second time around- you are in complete control and Tarantino knows exactly what he’s doing with every aside.
- key to the resurrection idea with Tate/Robbie is not only her glow and optimism (she’s dancing in almost every scene) but Tarantino pointing us to this saint here

- I believe there at least 3 crane subtle tracking shots (one at 27 mins going from Rick in pool to Polanski in Austin Powers outfit, one at 40 minutes going from roof to Margot dancing with the saint, and the finale) connecting the two neighboring houses and foreshadowing the historical pivot by Tarantino at the end– there’s an interconnectedness– I hesitate to even mention Inarritu (his films often are about the interconnectedness of three characters) because I believe his work, and that of say Amores Perros, was influenced by QT himself with Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction
- soundtrack– If you had told me before the film that Tarantino uses “California Dreamin” and The Rolling Stones “Out of Time” (wow) here i would have told him to back off Wong Kar-wai and Scorsese. The entire thing is so well curated but these two drops in particular absolutely slayed me.
- so packed full and layered– near the end the Mikey Madison “Sadie” character goes off about how Hollywood to blame for violence and the way they are…. this is Tarantino writing this putting these works in the villains’ collective mouth
- like above the second viewing showed yellows galore in the mise-en-scene— Robbie’s Tate is almost always wearing outfits draped in yellow, the placement of items all over the place, the yellow acid cigarette– no accident

- the hippies on Spahn ranch popping up and multiplying to horrifying effect like the birds on a wire like Hitchcock’s The Birds
- As far as QT’s ranking– if forced i think right now I’d say 2nd behind Pulp Fiction. It’s just so different than some of his works. There’s no trunk shot (i don’t think), no 360 De Palma shot, no split diopter, not as much of that trademark legendary dialogue, no non-linear narrative… but as we’ve documented and agreed upon here this is QT’s zenith when it comes to production design and world-building detail and i think the sliding doors narrative impact atom bomb is even more accomplished than Pulp Fiction in some ways…
3.0 April 2020
- there’s like 2000 words above so not much to add
- Tarantino savors every detail- look at every scene here where a drink is made
- Formally sets up the flamethrower ending 2 1/2 hours before, Pitt’s skills set up a few times including the beating at Spahn ranch and Bruce Lee– nothing unearned here formally
- background/foreground mastery. More than any film before QT pays attention to the background as much as his dialogue and the action in the foreground here. love the Musso and Frank Grill billboard shot- DiCaprio’s Rick, stuttering, temperamental and sensitive.

- there’s an American Graffiti– ness to this film, (that in itself a film about nostalgia- “Where were you in ’62” film) memory, Roma – but specifically, california, cars and music
- yellows– I’ve documented it above, how about Pitt’s yellow pots and pans, yellow television set for god’s sake, kitchen towel, “bitching yellow coup de ville”, yellow drapes behind ticket taker at movies, Paul Revere and the Raiders album, the beat up hippy car at the end
- how about just the montage of restaurants and movie houses turning on their neon light. It’s palpable — Tarantino successfully transfers this feeling– and it’s brilliantly connected to the Stones “Out of Touch” music drop

- a Masterpiece
That scene between Pacino and Dicaprio is one for the ages.
How about the greatest scene of the movie… « No, it was dumber than that. »
So Pitt won every award there is to win for best supporting actor.But is it only me that think he deserved to be acknowledged in the best actor category.Just like Brando in The Godfather he carried scenes on his own and DiCaprio wasn’t the narrative vehicle either.just because he was the stuntman/sidekick doesn’t mean he was a supporting actor.What do you think?Can you tell how much screen time did DiCaprio have and how much screen time did Pitt have?should be close.
@Janith. Drake has said he doesn’t make actor / main / support categories, i’ll see it again soon, but i’m pretty sure it has similar screen times, i will take the time, if the best performance of the year / movie comes from the one with the least screen time (support) for example Ledger just does it.
Really for Pitt it is better that there has been support, he was destined to lose in the main category.
@Aldo and @Janith– found this with a quick google search
I saw on twitter that DiCaprio has an hour and eleven minutes (I think somewhere around there) and Pitt has 55 minutes on screen
On the flip side he could have taken the spot of Jonathan Pryce on the best male actor side.So Dafoe can get his well deserved nomination.Most of all Pacino should have won the academy award for best supporting actor.I don’t like it when one of the best actors of all time only has an undeserved oscar to his name.
@Janith- Pitt’s win was not “undeserved”
He was talking about Pacino’s win in the 90s, not Pitt’s for this film.
Nah.I didn’t say that.Pitt is more of a lead actor than Marlon Brando in The Godfather and Day Lewis in Gangs of New York.He carried the movie without Dicaprio in a lot of scenes.It should have been between Pesci and Pacino for best supporting actor.Since Pesci already have a deserving oscar this should have been Pacino’s.
@Janith- this is why I don’t have this conversation about supporting vs. lead. It is a wormhole. If someone had a stop watch and found out Pacino was on screen for 56 minutes in the Irishman…just a waste of time
@Janith– well if you didn’t say that above– it sure looks like you did — you’re complaining that Pitt won and then say–quoting you– “I don’t like it when one of the best actors of all time only has an undeserved oscar to his name.”
I think the reference was to Pacino’s win for Scent of a Woman.
Hey I said about Pacino’s oscar win for Scent of a Woman.That is undeserving.The Irishman runs for 3 hours and 30 minutes.50 minutes more than Once Upon a Time In Hollyood.I bet Day Lewis didn’t had more than 50 minutes of screen time in Gangs of New York.He was nominated for best actor.It would have been nice if Pitt won for best lead actor and Pacino won for best supporting(Everybody knows Phoenix should have won in 2012 and Driver has his years to come).I really doubt Pacino will give a performance as good as this again.This would probably be his last chance to win a deserving oscar.Do you think if Pacino won he is undesrving?
@Janith- Ok- my apologies. If Pacino would have won for supporting for The Irishman I wouldn’t call it undeserving– but I think there are better performances from 2019- including Pitt- who did win. I agree Pacino should not have won in 1992.
How would you compare Once Upon A Time… in Hollywood visually/aesthetically/stylistically but also thematically with Tarantino’s whole idiom? When I’m saying thematically, I mostly mean it’s relationship to his on-going evolution as an auteur and the way he takes advantage of the power of the medium to rewrite history. Would you say it’s the absolute/ultimate film from him since it engages with all his stylistic obsessions and his whole cinematic universe?
@Cinephile- Great work here. There’s lots to chew on here. Really the only thing it doesn’t entail for Tarantino is the time manipulation in the structure of the narrative layout. He’s obviously been known for that in every one of his works leading up to Once Upon a Time… In Hollywood. Certainly since Inglourious Bastards he has been rewriting history (often resurrecting figures like Sharon Tate here). Would be interested to hear from @Matt Harris on your question.
What do you mean? his obsessions are the exploitation, n-word, feets, he is not Hitchcock, Tarkovsky or Bergman
The film that best portrays his “obsessions” is Death Proof and it’s his worst movie
@Aldo- feels like an unwarranted shot at QT. He isn’t rewriting history in several of his great works? Either you missed it, omitted it here to take a shot at him, or you haven’t seen the movies.
I’m glad you include Hitchcock here with Tarkovsky and Bergman (who often carry the banner for “high” art in cinema). Many in his day said the same thing about him and the scandalous content of his films.
Don’t forget to skip it, you included it, i did not see it necessary to mention twice, i forgot to include the spaghetti westerns.
Yeah, i included it for Vertigo, it portrays it pretty well, i chose Persona for Bergman and the mirror for Tarkovsky.
The reason i mentioned this, that’s because Tarantino movies are shallow (This is a description not a criticism, as you would say) what you see is what it is.
Do you think he has a movie as deep as the three i mentioned?
Ok this was “I did not forget to skip it”
What i mean is that, there is nothing to decipher, all his “obsessions” are present in all his films, almost all contain feet etc.
Am i clear or not? That’s why i ask what he means, almost all his films are stylistically the culmination of his obsessions, in fact the biggest triumph as a stylist will possibly be Kill Bill.
When i mention Bergman, it’s because he really has deep obsessions.
I hope i have explained because it seems that comments something about Tarantino that is not praising him, they attack like the last time
@Aldo- You lost me. I’m not exactly sure what your point is. Your description of his obsessions had to be corrected though.
@Aldo, I wouldn’t use shallow to describe Tarantino. Did you not see how emotional and shocking and brilliant the ending of Reservoir Dogs is?
Did you truly not think how amazing Samuel L Jackson’s “I’m trying real hard to be the Shephard” speech was? What was the first the thing that went through your mind? Was it really the fact that you thought it was shallow? You didn’t think about how brilliant it was? Did you not think about how much feeling and care Tarantino and the actors (and movie crew)must have had whilst creating such good endings?
Shallow? Really? I guess it’s your opinion though so you can think that.
It seems that they will not understand me, i will leave a short answer.
Hello @Azman, it seems that you are misunderstanding the term.
What i mean is that i can’t finish watching some Tarantino film and another by Tarkovsky and think that the first was profound (as i said it is a description not a criticism)
@Azman, you seem to always misunderstand when we talk about Tarantino, last time i said i didn’t care that he stole, it seems you understood the opposite, the same, are you talking about brilliant
“the reason I mentioned this that’s because Tarantino movies are shallow”.
That’s incorrect. I don’t think they are. Why compare him to Bergman anyways. Maybe Bergman made less shallow movies, but that doesn’t make Tarantino’s movies shallow.
@Azman – you are 100% correct. The point is if @Aldo is walking away from a movie like “Once Upon a Time…in Hollywood” and the takeaway was feet, bad language, and exploitation/spaghetti westerns… we watched different movies
It seems they didn’t understand anything, either way, it is the last comment i answer on this, i don’t want answers to this comment.
As a rhetorical question, Drake where do i say than OUATIH is about “and the takeaway was feet, bad language, and exploitation/spaghetti westerns… ” nowhere
@Aldo- I’m quoting you. “What do you mean? his obsessions are the exploitation, n-word, feets, he is not Hitchcock, Tarkovsky or Bergman”
Azman was also quoting you.
If I have a nit to pick with the film it is the treatment of Bruce Lee.I am 100% sure Bruce Lee don’t act like that and frankly nobody could take him on in his prime let alone a stuntman.
@Anderson– does feel like a nitpick. Tarantino has defended his characterization of Bruce Lee saying he was a confident/cocky guy. I don’t really know. But I, like Cliff, also believe Muhammad Ali would wipe the floor with Mr. Lee.
Muhammad Ali is a heavyweight.And Cliff Booth is the same size of Bruce Lee.There is a big difference.
@Anderson— “nobody could take him on in his prime “- Anderson
The odds of Bruce Lee beating Muhammad Ali is very very low.Every champion can loose a fight on a bad day.But a stuntman throwing Bruce Lee around that wouldn’t happened in a million years.
@Anderson- happy to hear you change your mind on your exact quote “nobody could take him in his prime” from an hour ago. I think Cliff would have a good shot.
But if we relied on accuracy a lot of great films wouldn’t have been made.I have to admit it was vital to the film to have Bruce Lee in the film because I think he was the stunt coordinator for Sharon Tate’s film.Pitt was great.So it’s tolerable when he is the one who beat up Lee.Still it’s a punch in the face to anyone who has seen the martial arts skill of Lee.Anyway Tarantino was right to include the scene and always a debate is better than no debate.
(I wanted to punch that Polanski guy in the face.It would have been great if they included the real Roman Polanski using deaging or something instead of an unknown actor)
@cinephile @drake @aldo @azman
(I posted this already but it came out as a huge, difficult to look at, block of text without appropriate spacing. If the other version could be deleted, that would be terrific)
I was name-checked here so I should probably chime in, not that I wouldn’t have been inclined to do so anyway as the subject is of terrific interest to me. The conversation seems to have strayed a bit afield from the initial question, so I’ll try to touch on all of it in my comments here.
First, regarding “obsessions”, it seems to me that the conversation has gone a little off track, but not for entirely incomprehensible reasons. Aldo has, in the past, expressed a distaste for certain elements of Tarantino’s films, namely the propensity for some of them to employ liberal usage of the n-word. Here he seems to lump that in with things like exploitation films, spaghetti westerns, and feet, and label that group of things Tarantino’s “obsessions” which he considers to manifest at a surface level in Tarantino’s work (which, in part, Aldo is right about), thus making Tarantino a “shallow” filmmaker in comparison to Bergman, Tarkovsky, and Hitchcock.
The error here (in my view) is considering these elements Tarantino’s obsessions in the first place. Tarantino has a foot-fetish it would seem, sure, and he sprinkles shots of feet throughout his work, though this has always struck me as a playful flourish on this part rather than something that need be deeply analyzed. As for the n-word, by his own account it came from the vernacular he grew up in and there seemed in his earlier films to be a desire to strip the word of its power, though he would appear to have moved on from that some time ago as its use has been limited since Pulp Fiction to either black characters themselves or blatantly reprehensible white racist characters. My objection to labeling these elements as Tarantino’s obsessions is that none of his films can be considered to be focused on these things in any substantive fashion.
When you start talking about exploitation films and spaghetti westerns you get closer to Tarantino’s obsessions, but when Aldo labels the manifestations of these elements as “shallow” arguing that “what you see is what it is”, I have to think he can only be referring to Death Proof which he rightly identifies as Tarantino’s worst movie. The point of that film was to be an out and out exploitation film (although Tarantino couldn’t help himself and still produced something on the level of writing and craft that was significantly better). Otherwise, he adopts elements of exploitation films and then elevates them. Is there anything “shallow” about the complex treatise on morality and redemption that is Pulp Fiction? Is there anything shallow about the exquisite narrative and stylistic manner in which Tarantino celebrates and humanizes the icon of Blaxploitation cinema Pam Grier in Jackie Brown? I think the answer is decidedly no in each case, and these are the two films in his oeuvre (other than Death Proof) that bear the closest relationship to exploitation films.
Now spaghetti westerns (at least the Leone variant) have no need of elevation as they are in every way the equal to their American forebears, so Tarantino employs them largely for stylistic purposes. In that way they play the same sort of role in his web of influences as Scorsese, Kurosawa, or the nouvelle vague, or Von Sternberg, or Pabst. It’s about aesthetics, and few filmmakers have as deft an aesthetic hand as Tarantino, which I don’t think Aldo disputes. One interesting (and decidedly un-shallow) diversion from this would be Django Unchained. In that work, Tarantino was inspired by Sergio Corbucci’s spaghetti westerns which he saw as critiques of Italian fascism under Mussolini. Tarantino’s twist on this was to, in his “Southern”, employ the spaghetti western to attack the history of American slavery in the antebellum south and simultaneously draw stylistic and textual connections to the present in order to critique the prison industrial complex of modern America. Again, nothing shallow about it.
I’ve written more on these things than I intended, but I’ll turn now to Cinephile’s initial question as to the relationship of Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood to the rest of Tarantino’s idiom. You rightly point out (and Drake reasserts) that it fits into Tarantino’s theme from the second half of his career of rewriting history. I think this is exactly right, however, this characteristic has developed out of a deeper trend in his work that has roots going back at least as far as Pulp Fiction. The true obsession of Tarantino’s career (and life I would say) is with the power of cinema and this has manifested along a number of tracks that largely run parallel throughout his work, though at times they intersect as well, particularly in Inglorious Basterds where they all come together in the single greatest exegesis on the power of cinema every captured-on film. All of this is far too complicated to explain in a single, already far too long, post in a comment thread so I’ll just isolate the one crucial element that ties the rewriting of history theme back to precursor elements found in Pulp Fiction. Most simply put, this is miracle making. In Pulp Fiction, Tarantino kills Vincent Vega, then resurrects him via the film’s reconstituted chronology in order that he may be present as counterpoint to Jules’ moral awakening in the film’s final act. This recurs in a different form in Inglourious Basterds when after killing each other, Shoshanna and Zoller are almost immediately “resurrected” in the screening of Nation’s Pride, as avenging phantasms in front of the Nazi high command. After Inglourious Basterds, which offered up the ultimate statement on cinephilia and the power of the medium, Tarantino continued employing this element in particular in his subsequent films, turning the power of cinema upon the great sins of history and Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood is absolutely an inheritor of that legacy.
Now the film is also doing a lot of other interesting things. There’s an extraordinary, celebratory shooting style to the way he captures DiCaprio and Pitt, but especially Margot Robbie, that has precursors in his treatments of Uma Thurman, Pam Grier, Melanie Laurent and John Travolta (among several others) that relates to yet another aesthetic manifestation of the cinephilic impulse in his filmmaking. There’s a lot of fascinating film ontological exploration being done with regard to which of the “films within the film” are presented in period accurate portrayals, and which transcend them. There’s so much more… but this is already probably the longest post in the history of this comment section and many people may tap out on it. So, I’ll stop… for now. Just… it’s not shallow. It really, really isn’t.
@Matt Harris- amazing- the entire thing- thank you. “rewriting of history theme back to precursor elements found in Pulp Fiction. Most simply put, this is miracle making. In Pulp Fiction, Tarantino kills Vincent Vega, then resurrects him via the film’s reconstituted chronology in order that he may be present as counterpoint to Jules’ moral awakening in the film’s final act”
@Matt Harris– Always a pleasure hearing from you. And let me just say I agree with all of this.
Do you think that it is necessary to understand the history of the Manson family murders for the climax of this movie to feel cathartic? I know that where I’m from outside the US it’s not exactly a widely recognised event for people not interested in Hollywood or its history, and so it left some people cold. Admittedly these were more casual viewers than people invested in studying and appreciating film, but to what extent do you believe a director can assume an audience is coming to their movie with some sort of specific knowledge? Would this movie work as well if, for example, it assumed knowledge about an Australian event from the 60’s, that non-Australians wouldn’t know about? Or do you think OUATIH gives enough justification within its own screenplay for that brutal finale to feel truly cathartic?
@Declan- that’s a fair point. If we’re talking about Tarantino reworking history certainly The Manson family isn’t as large a universal moment as Hitler and WWII (Inglourious Basterds) and slavery (Django).
For me the ending was a pleasant surprise.
But I don’t think it is necessary to understand the detailed history of the Manson family. I had not heard it left some people cold. I had heard that people were turned off by the extreme violence but hadn’t heard the coldness critique.
I think it only left them cold insofar as it didn’t have an impact beyond either enjoyment or disgust at the violence. I enjoyed the film myself but it did make me wonder whether the setup for a payoff needs to be in a film’s text or whether it can just rely on some sort of cultural background outside of the film.
Inglourious Basterds explicitly depicts the atrocities that the Nazis committed and what they represented, for example. On the other side of the spectrum, The Passion of Joan of Arc sets up a very basic understanding that she is some kind of revolutionary figure with deep faith and love of God, but it doesn’t require anymore knowledge of her than that to interpret the rest. I’ve been trying to figure out how one might leave OUATIH understanding the impact of the scene without knowing the true history behind it. I’m not trying to knock the film or Tarantino as a director, because I still believe both are excellent. But this is something I’ve been trying to figure out, not just in relation to this movie but rather to film in general.
For Tarantino, and the people with whom this film resonates, the Manson killings were more than just a series of tragic deaths under horrific circumstances. Tate’s murder has come to represent the death of the hopefulness and idealism (culturally/socially/politically) of the 1960s which was by no means an era exclusive to America. My take is that Tarantino is not only rewriting history to save this one seemingly delightful woman and her friends, but the entire spirit of the age. In that sense the scope of the endeavour comes a little closer to what he undertook with Inglourious Basterds or Django Unchained.
Is it necessary to understand the history? I mean it certainly helps. I doubt the sublimely ethereal melancholy of the final scene will fully register if you don’t understand exactly what makes this a fairy tale, but I don’t think the film is diminished in any way by Tarantino expecting a certain historical fluency of his audience.
I think you’re absolutely right about the symbolism. For some reason it’s just the lack of a textual setup for the catharsis that has been playing on my mind.
I will definitely have to revisit it again and see if I’m missing something. Perhaps a more atmospheric foreboding that this culture and way of life will be coming to an end very soon, separate from the Mansons? I can see that in Rick’s character for sure. I’ll probably return here and comment if anything has changed for me on my next watch.
Also I don’t think it is even necessarily a historical fluency thing. Going in I understood who the Mansons and Tate were, but I also try to go in as a blank slate to see what the filmmaker is making out of them. We spend a long time with Tate, but any tension we attach to her is created from the connections we make ourselves between this movie and reality – I’m not sure that Tarantino was using any particular filmmaking tools in her scenes to build that tension himself. Of course I may be misremembering, and I hope I am. It’s the only thing really holding me back from embracing it as a masterpiece.
Ok, I’m back after another rewatch, and it has improved significantly. I still have issues, but largely ones you have already addressed above. I do think there is enough tension there from Tarantino, not just from the connections we are making ourselves.
I may take a bit longer to formulate something substantial, but to briefly build on what you mention above about the lights montage – this is the first scene time in the movie we see Hollywood at night and it’s such a shift from everything we have been used to up to this point. There is definitely the sense of something lurking, closing in, suggesting the coming end of this golden age even if the threat isn’t explicitly revealed in the text yet.
I enjoyed this one on my 1st viewing but didn’t really think it was a serious contender for Tarantino’s top 3. Now I’m not so sure. I think you’re right about it’s emotional resonance growing over extended viewings. I think there’s a certain irony that the protagonist in film about a fading movie star is so relatable to an average regular person; and this is largely due to Leo’s phenomenal performance, people can relate to aging, have regrets, being insecure, etc. Many of Tarantino’s best characters are amazing characters but don’t feel like real actual people (Jules Winfield and Vince Vega for instance feel like movie characters as opposed to actual regular people)
Tarantino is such a master at incorporating music into scenes and this is probably my favorite Tarantino soundtrack along with Reservoir Dogs
– As noted by many others on this page the production is absolutely amazing, recreating an entire era and its look makes this arguably Tarantino’s most ambitious film of his career (maybe Inglorious)
– I think the Cliff Booth character works so well as it plays to Brad Pitt’s laid back style perfectly, Pitts performance which I initially thought was solid but maybe overhyped has improved dramatically for me with extended viewings, there’s a mysterious nature to Booth who seems to be a positive person and dedicated friend but may have done this terrible crime
– Margot Robbie gives a great performance with little dialogue (to the ire of some critics)
– Tarantino sure loves his drink references:
https://www.whiskyadvocate.com/the-whisky-lovers-quentin-tarantino-companion/
– This belongs in the conversation of the best films about the film industry along with The Player (1992), Boogie Nights (1997), Contempt (1963), 8 1/2 (1963), Day for Night (1973)
What exactly is the relevance of the color yellow here? And more generally the use of primary colors in film. I know there are many references to an auteurs use of primary colors in certain films.
@James Trapp- I have always assumed it was tied to the rich period detail.
I love how so much in your first review you’re like “hate this, hate that, that was really shit, what the hell is Tarantino doing here?” and then by the third viewing you’re like “a Masterpiece.” I mean first viewing (Jan/Feb 2020 I’d probably give it a retrospective HR leaning HR/MS since I didn’t know nearly as much about cinema back then as I do now, but this rewatch… wow… a true masterpiece.
I wonder if Tarantino was inspired somewhat by Louis Malle’s Elevator to the Gallows; there are similarities with the three-pronged narrative that’s really the stories of 3 characters that occasionally (ok not so much between Leo and Pitt) come into contact over the course of the narrative, as well as I saw some of the ways Tarantino shoots Robbie as she explores Los Angeles reminded me of how Malle brilliantly did the same with Moreau in Gallows. I can’t really come up with much of anything else since they’re very different films in other aspects but I digress.
I love the way Tarantino’s editing is informed by Truffaut sometimes; the tangents to the acid-dripped cigarette or Pitt about to push his wife off the boat seemed to be inspired by the wonderful cut to the mother dropping dead in Shoot the Piano Player (another film I was… wrong about to say the least on the first 2 viewings; a revelation on the third).
I’d love to hear from one of the Twitterboxd types that watched this and looked up Sergio Corbucci in the theater and then watched The Great Silence…
Probably Tarantino’s greatest feet of cinema aside from Pulp Fiction (yeah you know I had to make that joke); obviously the many shots of feet make this Tarantino’s most personal work.
@Zane – I enjoyed upon 1st viewing but really had no idea where I would rank it in amongst the rest of Tarantino’s films although I would have doubted that I would ever consider putting it in the Top 3…now I’m not so sure. Currently I would put
1. Pulp Fiction
2. Inglorious
3. Kill Bill/Once Upon a Time in Hollywood
4. Reservoir Dogs
5. Jackie Brown
6. Django
7. Hateful Eight
8. Death Proof
It’s grown on me with each viewing to the point where it may top 3 for me although if forced to pick I’d probably go with Kill Bill (I consider it as one film).
Using the movie within a movie or I guess technically a TV series within a movie is so brilliant as are the endless number of film references (subtle and not subtle ones). And yet in some ways it’s understated in comparison to say Inglorious in which I remember being just completely mesmerized upon leaving the theatre. Once Upon… is so atmospheric and less plot driven then other Tarantino films. The soundtrack is absolutely amazing as well and a major contributor to the films atmosphere.
[…] Once Upon a Time … in Hollywood – Tarantino […]
Just finished reading Tarantino’s novelization of this, very addicting read and just fleshes out the whole film with an endless supply of little details on each character. There’s a chapter about Cliff’s (Brad Pitt) cinephilia that was really fun to read – he hates Antonioni and finds Bergman boring but is a diehard Kurosawa fan. It also expands the TV pilot that Rick Dalton (DeCaprio) and the child actress shoot and they have some amazing dialogue together that would have been a great fit for the film. I was definitely in awe and how easy it would have been to throw another hour onto this huge masterpiece with some of the extra detail from this novel, highly recommend it to people who love this film (It does not just rehash every film scene).
@Harry- Thanks for sending this. I actually have the book sitting here but have a few other books I want to get to first.