@Malith. Thanks, know of Sjostrom, but have not seen any of his films yet (apart from his acting in Wild Strawberries), so should have added him to the note on Widerberg.
No Name
1 Ingmar Bergman
2 Carl Theodor Dreyer
3 Lars von Trier
4 Thomas Vinterberg
5 Aki Kaurismaki
6 Nicholas Winding Refn
7 Joachim Trier
8 Ruben Ostland
9 Roy Andersson
10 Lasse Hallstrom
11 Jan Troell
12 Tomas Alfredson
13 Billie August
14 Susanne Bier
15 Baltasar Kormakur
@LeRoi-Maybe Piano Teacher is technically French(main backing), but I mean really it is all Austrian by an Austrian Director set in Austria. The Son and all the great Dardenne films(they have a lot) are Belgian. I think the strongest argument is the Pianist. It’s close but I considered it Polish but Polanski has lived in France since the 1970’s so I don’t know.
Under the Sand is strong. Probably Rampling’s career best performance. Resnais’ Private Fears in Public Places is another great film. Elle is a great one I missed. Thanks for pointing that out.
@Malith. Thanks. Agreed that Noe and Gavras could have been included as like Kechiche they went to France as children before making any films. Polanski however already made several films in Poland, UK and USA before ‘moving’ to France and would not include him here. Both of them would probably come in around the 20th mark.
Well there was the war to deal with in the 1940s. I think the 1990s was underrated. Although it didn’t come close to the 1970s, there were definitely more than 5 great French films. Off the top of my head, can think of La Ceremonie (Chabrol), the Tales of the Four Seasons films (Rohmer) the Lovers on the Bridge (Carax), La Belle Noiseuse (Rivette), La Haine (Kassovitz), Delicatessen and City of Lost Children (Jeunet), La Double Vie de Veronique and the Three Colours Trilogy (Kieslowski), L’Humanite (Dumont), Leon (Besson), Nelly et Monsieur Arnaud (Sautet) etc
@LeRoi-Depends if you can categorize Double Life of Veronique, Three Colors: White and Three Colors: Red as French films. Especially from what I remember Three Colors: Red has very little to do with France. There were more great French films from the 1990’s than I remembered but I don’t see a big difference between that and 2000’s(stronger). 2010’s is maybe weaker but still has more great French films
1990’s:
Three Colors: Blue
The City of Lost Children
La Haine
The Lovers on the Bridge
Delicatessen
La Ceremonie
La Belle Noiseuse
2000’s:
Cache
Code Unknown
Very Long Engagement
Amelie
Flight of the Red Baloon
The Diving Bell and the Butterfly
Irreversible
Enter the Void
Summer Hours
A Christmas Tale
A Prophet
2010’s:
An Officer and a Spy
Blue is the Warmest Colour
The Woman in the Fifth
Amour
Holy Motors
Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Based on a True Story
Of Gods and Men
The Illutionist
Instead of sharing my own top250 directors list which may be too difficult to prepare, I though it may be interesting to break it up by country/region and share my favourites. Some groupings will be a bit arbitrary, but will share my personal lists for:
USA/Canada (top100)
France (top50)
UK/Ireland (top50)
Italy (top25)
Japan/Korea/China/Taiwan/Hong Konh (top25)
Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries (top20)
Scandinavia (top15)
Germany/Austria (top10)
Eastern/Central Europe and Russia (top20)
Australia/NZ (top10)
Other (top10)
First up
Top 50 French directors:
No Name
1 Robert Bresson
2 Francois Truffaut
3. Jean Renoir
4. Jean-Pierre Melville
5. Jean Luc Godard
6. Louis Malle
7. Eric Rohmer
8. Max Ophuls
9. Jacques Demy
10. Alain Resnais
11. Claude Chabrol
12 Henri Georges Clouzot
13 Agnes Varda
14 Maurice Pialat
15. Jacques Becker
16. Jacques Rivette
17 Bertrand Tavernier
18. Jacques Audiard
19. Claire Denis
20 Marcel Carne
21. Jacques Tati
22. Jean-Pierre Jeunet
23. Jean Cocteau
24 Jean Vigo
25 Oliver Assayas
26. Bruno Dumont
27 Celine Sciama
28 Rene Clement
29 Abel Gance
30 Leos Carax
31 Francois Ozon
32 Luc Besson
33 Jean Eustache
34 Jacques Deray
35 Bertrand Blier
36 Mathieu Kassovitz
37 Abdellatif Kechiche
38 Guillame Canet
39 Claude Lelouch
40 Claude Berri
41 Mia Hansen-Love
42 Julien Duvernier
43 Claude Sautet
44 Jacques Rozier
45 Patrice Leconte
46 Alain Corneau
47 Rene Clair
48 Catherine Breillat
49 Arnaud Desplechin
50 Jean Gremillon
The fact that there are a number of good French directors I couldn’t find place for, illustrates the depth of French cinema, especially during the 70s-90s. Best foreign film nominations at the Cesars throughout the years also make quite interesting reading for those who have the time.
@LeRoi-If you are including Abdellattif Kechchiche as French I think you should include directors like Gaspar Noe, Costa-Gavras and Roman Polanski as well. Given they lived most of their life in France
Plus 1990’s is like the worst decade for French films along with the 1940’s. I find it hard to recall 5 great French films from these decades.
John Ford man. Should be in that realm with Kubrick and Hitchcock. There is no possible way you can put those three behind anyone else because they literally influenced everyone!
@ James Trapp
I like quite a few Peckinpah films but I have to agree with you. I think one would have a very hard time arguing that he has either a stronger filmography or a more important role in film history than quite a few names below him on the list.
I also think that John Huston is underrated at #102.
Really? I think he’s seriously underrated here, then. I see that The Dead and The African Queen and Under the Volcano don’t even make the top 1,000.
Yes, there are quite a few mediocre films in his catalogue, but I think there’s absolutely greatness there (and that he deserves respective as a pioneering film auteur, a screenwriter-turned director at the same time as Preston Sturges made the same move and Orson Welles made Citizen Kane.)
@RW – Huston has a strong filmography no doubt, the argument against him would be his lack of incredible visuals. This site puts a lot of weight on mise en scene, visual beauty, and film form. It puts less weight in writings and acting. I am not saying this is wrong or that I disagree with it just pointing out that this tends to be the priority. Obviously this is not my site, so I am not speaking officially but I have following/posting for couple years so these are my observations. I like Huston too, in particular The Treasure of Sierra Madre is a favorite of mine and features one of my all time favorite performances with Bogart’s iconic Fred C Dobbs. Howard Hawks was once ranked # 14 and is now # 29. By the next ranking I would be suprised if he cracks the top 40.
I feel like there are some absolutely stunning visuals in the John Huston catalogue: the use of filters to make the entirety of Moulin Rouge feel like a Toulouse-Lautrec come to life, the skeleton puppets that open Under the Volcano, the ancient statues shrouded in mist and avalanche in The Man Who Would Be King, the snow-shrouded cemetery at the end of The Dead.
I think Ken Loach is overrated here. I mean Kes is great. But there is nothing really substantial after that. And he is not a style-plus director. Even though his films follow similar themes.
That’s good.
I think Samurai Rebellion and Harakiri are as good as any Kurosawa samurai movies, and that Kwaidan is an unforgettable visual experience.
Samurai Rebellion stayed at the same level. Roughly around the same level as Kurosawa’s Sanjuro. But others like Kwaidan, Harakiri and The Human Condition(which was not even included when this page was written) got big upgrades but still below I think 5 Kurosawa films(Seven Samurai, Rashomon, High and Low, Ikiru and Bad Sleep Well) roughly around the same level as Ran and Yojimbo. And 3 other Kobayashi films got added as well apart from The Human Condition.(The Thick-Walled Room, Black River, The Inheritance). These upgrades are shown in the Tatsuya Nakadai(Kobayashi’s muse) actor page
When I first stumbled upon Cinema Archives, my mind immediately went to a similar project, Erik Beck/Nighthawk News’ all-time rankings of films and directors.
Four directors appear in both lists’ top ten: Alfred Hitchcock, Stanley Kubrick, Ingmar Bergman, Martin Scorsese.
Five directors on Cinema Archive’s top thirty do not appear in Beck’s top 100: Ozu (4th), Godard (16th), Max Ophüls (17th), Wong Kar-Wai (22nd) and Joseph von Sternberg (26th). I have to say that I completely agree with Cinema Archives here — in my opinion, Ozu directed some of the all-time greatest films.
On the other hand, three directors on Beck’s top 100 do not appear on this page’s top 250: Stephen Frears, Neil Jordan and Cameron Crowe.
The biggest discrepancies in rankings are for Peter Weir (34th on Beck’s list, 177th on Cinema Archives, -143), Danny Boyle (50th and 190th), Peter Jackson (15th and 115th) and John Huston (19th and 102nd).
Just curious: what is the rational for George A. Romero being relatively high compared to other filmmakers much more represented/likely to appear on a Sight and Sound list (IE Abbas Kiarostami, Terence Davies, Mike Leigh, Peter Weir, Edward Yang)?
Is it because of Romero’s deep influence on cinematic horror (and on zombie media in general)?
I see.
Any thoughts on the comparison between this list and another similar list I posted below?
Malith
December 6, 2023 at 9:10 pm
@RW-Interesting question. I’m not sure. There are a lot of big changes since this list was published. I’d say Herzog-overrated, Fassbinder-underrated. Fassbinder is clearly superior. For example in the top 1000 films list here Fassbinder had 8 films while Herzog only had 3.
I think most people have not seen these films from foreign auteurs. And von Sternberg existed ages ago. While directors like Huston, Boyle and Jackson are household names who worked in Hollywood pictures. On a lower scale, this applies to Frears, Crowe and Jordan as well.
And directors like Chantel Akerman, Lucrecia Martel, Clair Denis have extraordinarily high ratings because of feminist themes. And this applies to a lot of ordinary films by black filmmakers which are praised enormously because of diversity themes. Although I can’t really pinpoint any suitable director here
Is there anyone you find particularly overrated or underrated on the Cinema Archives list?
James Trapp
December 7, 2023 at 1:38 am
@RW – Given the updated top 1000 list I think its fair to say there will be some major changes making this question tricky. Chan-wook Park would have been my biggest discrepancy at # 220 but he is going to skyrocket with the next list given huge upgrades to several of his films (upgrades I strongly agree with) I also thought Polanski at #38 should be higher but again given upgrades to several of is key films I think he will rise quite a bit. Another complicating factor is that there is a 10 year moratorium meaning films made within the last 10 years are not eligible.
James Trapp
December 7, 2023 at 2:09 am
@RW – It kills me to say it given how much I love The Wild Bunch (1969) but Sam Peckinpah at #58 is overrated. The Wild Bunch is ranked at #83 which I am on board with, I might even go higher but at Garrett & Billy the Kid at # 202 I disagree with, its a solid film but after a recent rewatch I don’t think its really all that close to The Wild Bunch
De Palma is ranked at # 64 which is actually higher than the concensus and I know Drake is a big admirer of his work but I actually think he should be higher than that. His filmography is more extensive than I initally believed. Blow Out is a straight MP but he Carrie, Scarface, Dressed to Kill are all near MS or MP level. He is a Virtuoso behind the camera and even his weaker films still have several moments worthy of high praise
Malith
December 7, 2023 at 4:59 am
I think Carlito’s Way is near masterpiece level. There is one out of place scene. But it’s a wild ride and fantastic film. It’s Pacino best performance outside the big 3 imo. Every time he screams/shouts there is a tinge of sadness associated with it.
James Trapp
December 7, 2023 at 5:46 am
@Malith – good call on Carlito’s Way, I might put it just below but its close. I think Pacino’s performance is more impressive in Carlito’s Way (or at the very least its the more complex role) although I think Scarface is overall more impressive but they are a great pairing
1. Blow Out – MP
2. Scarface – MP
3. Dressed to Kill – MP/MS
4. Carrie – MS/MP
5. Carlito’s Way – MS
Then you have another 4 films that are at least HR in no particular order:
Sisters – overlooked gem in my opinion
Obsession
Untouchables
Body Double
Malith
December 7, 2023 at 5:54 am
I think Obsession is more overlooked than Sisters tbh.
@MovieJoker- thanks for sharing. I’ve read this Bordwell article. I was able to meet him decades ago- I love Bordwell. The page mostly makes me want to catch Angelopoulos’ work. I don’t think there are any Michael Bay films in the archives ( I could be wrong) but Tony Scott has a 5 or 6.
@MovierJoker- Certainly the earlier directors are more likely to be influential – but it is fun to see the crew that came up in the 1990s (like Tarantino, Wes Anderson, and Fincher- feel like everything is Fincher lately) influence so many new films.
I think this list in itself is a pretty good starting point. Hitchcock’s manipulation of camera movement and editing to create suspense is everywhere. Ozu’s approach to framing almost seems to be the default comparison now whenever a director uses a window or doorway to create a particularly excellent composition. Then there’s Scorsese and Coppola’s influence on crime films, Godard and Truffaut when we look at subverting continuity in narrative and editing, de Sica and Rossellini innovating realism, and Kurosawa when it comes to blocking and editing action. It’s natural that the most accomplished artists in their field will also be the most influential, even if it’s not a hard and fast rule.
But like you said, it’s difficult to look past the silent film directors who invented the cinematic language everyone uses today, and which has become pretty universal. We don’t have noir or horror as we know it without Murnau or Lang, we don’t have montages without Eisenstein, and don’t have much of anything without D.W. Griffith. Creating some sort of visual representation of that lineage would be an ambitious project, but fascinating to see.
Now you have me wondering what director is the most accomplished, while also influencing the least amount of films/film makers.
Robert Bresson’s approach to acting comes to mind for me-while loads of directors admire bresson, I can’t really name any directors who have copied the way he drained his actors of all emotion/energy
Very surprised by the lack of Tsai Ming-liang. Goodbye, Dragon Inn is possibly the best film of the 21st Century and he rivals PTA as the best filmmaker alive for my money. Getting into him helped me understand the merits of slow cinema. Would definitely be a top 100 filmmaker for me
@Andrew Eaton- Thank you for the comment. So this page is just over 2 years old (update coming as the next big project). Since sort of publishing – I did a Tsai Ming-liang study catching 9 of his films- many of them have pages on the website here and 3 of the made the recently finished top 1000 films of all-time.
Nuri Bilge Ceylan should be in a conversation for the best director of the 21st century imo, if not the best. His films are not only some of the most beautiful but they are full of depth and layers and they are masterfully constructed with clear overall vision and structuring and development that supports it. Every detail is always meaningful and plays a part and is in function of the bigger picture. He is a master of pacing, his cinematography is beautiful, his style is pretty static but always great framing, great shots, always masterful lighting, colors… His resume is not the most rich in terms of quantity so I don’t know how that limits his positioning on these types of lists but when it comes to the craft of filmmaking he is one of the best modern directors.
My top 20 for Eastern European/Russian combined list, noting there are quite a few other Russian directors I still need to cover:
No Name
1 Krysztof Kieslowski
2 Andrei Tarkovsky
3 Roman Polanski
4 Sergei Eisenstein
5 Milos Forman
6 Emir Kusturica
7 Christian Mungiu
8 Pawel Pawlikowski
9 Mikhail Kalatozov
10 Bela Tarr
11 Andrzej Wajda
12 Sergei Bondarchuk
13 Tengiz Abuladze
14 Agnieszka Holland
15 Jiri Menzel
16 Elem Klimov
17 Andrey Zvyagintsev
18 Aleksey Balabanov
19 Larisa Shepitko
20 Cristi Puiu
Zulawski? Sokurov? Klimov?
@Malith. Thanks, know of Sjostrom, but have not seen any of his films yet (apart from his acting in Wild Strawberries), so should have added him to the note on Widerberg.
The Phantom Carriage and The Wind are both excellent.
My top 15 for Scandinavian directors
No Name
1 Ingmar Bergman
2 Carl Theodor Dreyer
3 Lars von Trier
4 Thomas Vinterberg
5 Aki Kaurismaki
6 Nicholas Winding Refn
7 Joachim Trier
8 Ruben Ostland
9 Roy Andersson
10 Lasse Hallstrom
11 Jan Troell
12 Tomas Alfredson
13 Billie August
14 Susanne Bier
15 Baltasar Kormakur
Note: Have not seen any films from Bo Widerberg
My top 10 is:
1.Ingmar Bergman
2.Lars von Trier
3.Roy Andersson
4.Victor Sjostrom(Did you miss him?)
5.Nicolas Winding Refn
6.Aki Kaurismaki
7.Joachim Trier
8.Thomas Vinterberg
9.Ruben Ostlund
10.Tomas Alfredson
H.M-
Lasse Hallstrom
I missed Dreyer. I think he would land at #2 here.
Sorry Petite Maman is of course only 2021
@Malith. Thanks, some great films listed there for 2000s and 2010s. Would add to those:
2000s
The Piano Teacher
Tell No One
The Beat that My Heart Skipped
Mesrine
The Secret of the Grain
The Son
White Material
Swimming Pool
2010s (still need to see LiL Quinquin)
Two Days, One Night
Rust and Bone
Things to Come
Elle
Petite Maman
I Lost my Body
@LeRoi-Maybe Piano Teacher is technically French(main backing), but I mean really it is all Austrian by an Austrian Director set in Austria. The Son and all the great Dardenne films(they have a lot) are Belgian. I think the strongest argument is the Pianist. It’s close but I considered it Polish but Polanski has lived in France since the 1970’s so I don’t know.
Under the Sand is strong. Probably Rampling’s career best performance. Resnais’ Private Fears in Public Places is another great film. Elle is a great one I missed. Thanks for pointing that out.
@Malith. Thanks. Agreed that Noe and Gavras could have been included as like Kechiche they went to France as children before making any films. Polanski however already made several films in Poland, UK and USA before ‘moving’ to France and would not include him here. Both of them would probably come in around the 20th mark.
Well there was the war to deal with in the 1940s. I think the 1990s was underrated. Although it didn’t come close to the 1970s, there were definitely more than 5 great French films. Off the top of my head, can think of La Ceremonie (Chabrol), the Tales of the Four Seasons films (Rohmer) the Lovers on the Bridge (Carax), La Belle Noiseuse (Rivette), La Haine (Kassovitz), Delicatessen and City of Lost Children (Jeunet), La Double Vie de Veronique and the Three Colours Trilogy (Kieslowski), L’Humanite (Dumont), Leon (Besson), Nelly et Monsieur Arnaud (Sautet) etc
@LeRoi-Depends if you can categorize Double Life of Veronique, Three Colors: White and Three Colors: Red as French films. Especially from what I remember Three Colors: Red has very little to do with France. There were more great French films from the 1990’s than I remembered but I don’t see a big difference between that and 2000’s(stronger). 2010’s is maybe weaker but still has more great French films
1990’s:
Three Colors: Blue
The City of Lost Children
La Haine
The Lovers on the Bridge
Delicatessen
La Ceremonie
La Belle Noiseuse
2000’s:
Cache
Code Unknown
Very Long Engagement
Amelie
Flight of the Red Baloon
The Diving Bell and the Butterfly
Irreversible
Enter the Void
Summer Hours
A Christmas Tale
A Prophet
2010’s:
An Officer and a Spy
Blue is the Warmest Colour
The Woman in the Fifth
Amour
Holy Motors
Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Based on a True Story
Of Gods and Men
The Illutionist
Certified Copy is another one from the 2010’s
Instead of sharing my own top250 directors list which may be too difficult to prepare, I though it may be interesting to break it up by country/region and share my favourites. Some groupings will be a bit arbitrary, but will share my personal lists for:
USA/Canada (top100)
France (top50)
UK/Ireland (top50)
Italy (top25)
Japan/Korea/China/Taiwan/Hong Konh (top25)
Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries (top20)
Scandinavia (top15)
Germany/Austria (top10)
Eastern/Central Europe and Russia (top20)
Australia/NZ (top10)
Other (top10)
First up
Top 50 French directors:
No Name
1 Robert Bresson
2 Francois Truffaut
3. Jean Renoir
4. Jean-Pierre Melville
5. Jean Luc Godard
6. Louis Malle
7. Eric Rohmer
8. Max Ophuls
9. Jacques Demy
10. Alain Resnais
11. Claude Chabrol
12 Henri Georges Clouzot
13 Agnes Varda
14 Maurice Pialat
15. Jacques Becker
16. Jacques Rivette
17 Bertrand Tavernier
18. Jacques Audiard
19. Claire Denis
20 Marcel Carne
21. Jacques Tati
22. Jean-Pierre Jeunet
23. Jean Cocteau
24 Jean Vigo
25 Oliver Assayas
26. Bruno Dumont
27 Celine Sciama
28 Rene Clement
29 Abel Gance
30 Leos Carax
31 Francois Ozon
32 Luc Besson
33 Jean Eustache
34 Jacques Deray
35 Bertrand Blier
36 Mathieu Kassovitz
37 Abdellatif Kechiche
38 Guillame Canet
39 Claude Lelouch
40 Claude Berri
41 Mia Hansen-Love
42 Julien Duvernier
43 Claude Sautet
44 Jacques Rozier
45 Patrice Leconte
46 Alain Corneau
47 Rene Clair
48 Catherine Breillat
49 Arnaud Desplechin
50 Jean Gremillon
The fact that there are a number of good French directors I couldn’t find place for, illustrates the depth of French cinema, especially during the 70s-90s. Best foreign film nominations at the Cesars throughout the years also make quite interesting reading for those who have the time.
@LeRoi-If you are including Abdellattif Kechchiche as French I think you should include directors like Gaspar Noe, Costa-Gavras and Roman Polanski as well. Given they lived most of their life in France
Plus 1990’s is like the worst decade for French films along with the 1940’s. I find it hard to recall 5 great French films from these decades.
John Ford man. Should be in that realm with Kubrick and Hitchcock. There is no possible way you can put those three behind anyone else because they literally influenced everyone!
Any thoughts on Hal Hartley?
@ James Trapp
I like quite a few Peckinpah films but I have to agree with you. I think one would have a very hard time arguing that he has either a stronger filmography or a more important role in film history than quite a few names below him on the list.
I also think that John Huston is underrated at #102.
@RW – Huston will surely move down with the next directors list update on this site.
Really? I think he’s seriously underrated here, then. I see that The Dead and The African Queen and Under the Volcano don’t even make the top 1,000.
Yes, there are quite a few mediocre films in his catalogue, but I think there’s absolutely greatness there (and that he deserves respective as a pioneering film auteur, a screenwriter-turned director at the same time as Preston Sturges made the same move and Orson Welles made Citizen Kane.)
@RW – Huston has a strong filmography no doubt, the argument against him would be his lack of incredible visuals. This site puts a lot of weight on mise en scene, visual beauty, and film form. It puts less weight in writings and acting. I am not saying this is wrong or that I disagree with it just pointing out that this tends to be the priority. Obviously this is not my site, so I am not speaking officially but I have following/posting for couple years so these are my observations. I like Huston too, in particular The Treasure of Sierra Madre is a favorite of mine and features one of my all time favorite performances with Bogart’s iconic Fred C Dobbs. Howard Hawks was once ranked # 14 and is now # 29. By the next ranking I would be suprised if he cracks the top 40.
I feel like there are some absolutely stunning visuals in the John Huston catalogue: the use of filters to make the entirety of Moulin Rouge feel like a Toulouse-Lautrec come to life, the skeleton puppets that open Under the Volcano, the ancient statues shrouded in mist and avalanche in The Man Who Would Be King, the snow-shrouded cemetery at the end of The Dead.
I think Ken Loach is overrated here. I mean Kes is great. But there is nothing really substantial after that. And he is not a style-plus director. Even though his films follow similar themes.
I’d make an argument for Sorry We Missed you, which has some really emotionally affecting moments.
Re: Loach, the question becomes how you deal with a filmmaker whose filmmaking is clearly informed by an ideological agenda.
@ James Trapp
For me, the most underrated have to be Peter Weir at 177th and especially Masaki Kobayashi outside of the top 200.
@RW-All of Masaki Kobayashi’s films got upgraded after this ranking. He would be much higher if a new update arrives.
That’s good.
I think Samurai Rebellion and Harakiri are as good as any Kurosawa samurai movies, and that Kwaidan is an unforgettable visual experience.
Samurai Rebellion stayed at the same level. Roughly around the same level as Kurosawa’s Sanjuro. But others like Kwaidan, Harakiri and The Human Condition(which was not even included when this page was written) got big upgrades but still below I think 5 Kurosawa films(Seven Samurai, Rashomon, High and Low, Ikiru and Bad Sleep Well) roughly around the same level as Ran and Yojimbo. And 3 other Kobayashi films got added as well apart from The Human Condition.(The Thick-Walled Room, Black River, The Inheritance). These upgrades are shown in the Tatsuya Nakadai(Kobayashi’s muse) actor page
https://thecinemaarchives.com/2023/06/30/the-61st-best-actor-of-all-time-tatsuya-nakadai/
@ Malith
Re: Werner Herzog, I think it’s important to note that Cinema Archives, by excluding documentaries, really only takes half of his career into account.
When I first stumbled upon Cinema Archives, my mind immediately went to a similar project, Erik Beck/Nighthawk News’ all-time rankings of films and directors.
I thought it might be interesting and thought-provoking to compare both lists of the all-time greatest film directors; you can see Beck’s top 100 list here: https://nighthawknews.wordpress.com/2022/08/29/the-100-greatest-directors-of-all-time-3-0-the-complete-list/
Four directors appear in both lists’ top ten: Alfred Hitchcock, Stanley Kubrick, Ingmar Bergman, Martin Scorsese.
Five directors on Cinema Archive’s top thirty do not appear in Beck’s top 100: Ozu (4th), Godard (16th), Max Ophüls (17th), Wong Kar-Wai (22nd) and Joseph von Sternberg (26th). I have to say that I completely agree with Cinema Archives here — in my opinion, Ozu directed some of the all-time greatest films.
On the other hand, three directors on Beck’s top 100 do not appear on this page’s top 250: Stephen Frears, Neil Jordan and Cameron Crowe.
The biggest discrepancies in rankings are for Peter Weir (34th on Beck’s list, 177th on Cinema Archives, -143), Danny Boyle (50th and 190th), Peter Jackson (15th and 115th) and John Huston (19th and 102nd).
Just curious: what is the rational for George A. Romero being relatively high compared to other filmmakers much more represented/likely to appear on a Sight and Sound list (IE Abbas Kiarostami, Terence Davies, Mike Leigh, Peter Weir, Edward Yang)?
Is it because of Romero’s deep influence on cinematic horror (and on zombie media in general)?
Edward Yang will be much higher if a new update arrives. His two main films got huge upgrades.
Same for Terrence Davies.
Very deserved in my view.
Those two films are very special.
Also, what are your thoughts on Romero and his legacy?
I have not watched any Romero films yet actually
I see.
Any thoughts on the comparison between this list and another similar list I posted below?
@RW-Interesting question. I’m not sure. There are a lot of big changes since this list was published. I’d say Herzog-overrated, Fassbinder-underrated. Fassbinder is clearly superior. For example in the top 1000 films list here Fassbinder had 8 films while Herzog only had 3.
I think most people have not seen these films from foreign auteurs. And von Sternberg existed ages ago. While directors like Huston, Boyle and Jackson are household names who worked in Hollywood pictures. On a lower scale, this applies to Frears, Crowe and Jordan as well.
And directors like Chantel Akerman, Lucrecia Martel, Clair Denis have extraordinarily high ratings because of feminist themes. And this applies to a lot of ordinary films by black filmmakers which are praised enormously because of diversity themes. Although I can’t really pinpoint any suitable director here
Is there anyone you find particularly overrated or underrated on the Cinema Archives list?
@RW – Given the updated top 1000 list I think its fair to say there will be some major changes making this question tricky. Chan-wook Park would have been my biggest discrepancy at # 220 but he is going to skyrocket with the next list given huge upgrades to several of his films (upgrades I strongly agree with) I also thought Polanski at #38 should be higher but again given upgrades to several of is key films I think he will rise quite a bit. Another complicating factor is that there is a 10 year moratorium meaning films made within the last 10 years are not eligible.
@RW – It kills me to say it given how much I love The Wild Bunch (1969) but Sam Peckinpah at #58 is overrated. The Wild Bunch is ranked at #83 which I am on board with, I might even go higher but at Garrett & Billy the Kid at # 202 I disagree with, its a solid film but after a recent rewatch I don’t think its really all that close to The Wild Bunch
De Palma is ranked at # 64 which is actually higher than the concensus and I know Drake is a big admirer of his work but I actually think he should be higher than that. His filmography is more extensive than I initally believed. Blow Out is a straight MP but he Carrie, Scarface, Dressed to Kill are all near MS or MP level. He is a Virtuoso behind the camera and even his weaker films still have several moments worthy of high praise
I think Carlito’s Way is near masterpiece level. There is one out of place scene. But it’s a wild ride and fantastic film. It’s Pacino best performance outside the big 3 imo. Every time he screams/shouts there is a tinge of sadness associated with it.
@Malith – good call on Carlito’s Way, I might put it just below but its close. I think Pacino’s performance is more impressive in Carlito’s Way (or at the very least its the more complex role) although I think Scarface is overall more impressive but they are a great pairing
1. Blow Out – MP
2. Scarface – MP
3. Dressed to Kill – MP/MS
4. Carrie – MS/MP
5. Carlito’s Way – MS
Then you have another 4 films that are at least HR in no particular order:
Sisters – overlooked gem in my opinion
Obsession
Untouchables
Body Double
I think Obsession is more overlooked than Sisters tbh.
What are your thoughts on Tony Scott and Michael Bay?
Two auteurs who I quite like. Regardless of their flaws, you can’t deny they know their way around a good shot.
Bordwell article on Tony Scott(esp. his later work)
https://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2013/02/03/tony-and-theo/
@MovieJoker- thanks for sharing. I’ve read this Bordwell article. I was able to meet him decades ago- I love Bordwell. The page mostly makes me want to catch Angelopoulos’ work. I don’t think there are any Michael Bay films in the archives ( I could be wrong) but Tony Scott has a 5 or 6.
Yes, one of the great film scholars.
How about Fernando Meirelles(City of God, The Constant Gardener, The Two Popes)?
@Drake- Do you have anything from Lav Diaz in the archives. What do you make of his work?
@AP- I don’t believe I’ve caught any
@AP- I don’t believe I’ve caught any
What Nagisa Oshima films have you seen and/or archived?
@MovierJoker – In the Realm of the Senses, Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence and Taboo
What directors have influenced the most directors? I assume the earliest silent directors would be slot pretty high
I wonder if anyone has made a family tree of sorts, showing which directors influenced each other-would be interesting
@MovierJoker- Certainly the earlier directors are more likely to be influential – but it is fun to see the crew that came up in the 1990s (like Tarantino, Wes Anderson, and Fincher- feel like everything is Fincher lately) influence so many new films.
I think this list in itself is a pretty good starting point. Hitchcock’s manipulation of camera movement and editing to create suspense is everywhere. Ozu’s approach to framing almost seems to be the default comparison now whenever a director uses a window or doorway to create a particularly excellent composition. Then there’s Scorsese and Coppola’s influence on crime films, Godard and Truffaut when we look at subverting continuity in narrative and editing, de Sica and Rossellini innovating realism, and Kurosawa when it comes to blocking and editing action. It’s natural that the most accomplished artists in their field will also be the most influential, even if it’s not a hard and fast rule.
But like you said, it’s difficult to look past the silent film directors who invented the cinematic language everyone uses today, and which has become pretty universal. We don’t have noir or horror as we know it without Murnau or Lang, we don’t have montages without Eisenstein, and don’t have much of anything without D.W. Griffith. Creating some sort of visual representation of that lineage would be an ambitious project, but fascinating to see.
Crazy you didn’t mention Welles here. Branagh went full Orson Welles in A Haunting in Venice.
Now you have me wondering what director is the most accomplished, while also influencing the least amount of films/film makers.
Robert Bresson’s approach to acting comes to mind for me-while loads of directors admire bresson, I can’t really name any directors who have copied the way he drained his actors of all emotion/energy
Very surprised by the lack of Tsai Ming-liang. Goodbye, Dragon Inn is possibly the best film of the 21st Century and he rivals PTA as the best filmmaker alive for my money. Getting into him helped me understand the merits of slow cinema. Would definitely be a top 100 filmmaker for me
@Andrew Eaton- Thank you for the comment. So this page is just over 2 years old (update coming as the next big project). Since sort of publishing – I did a Tsai Ming-liang study catching 9 of his films- many of them have pages on the website here and 3 of the made the recently finished top 1000 films of all-time.
What do you think of Rebels of the Neon God? Probably my favorite film of his.
@Drake how many archivable films does Seijun Suzuki have after your study?
@LeBron Smith- 7 films right now
Nuri Bilge Ceylan should be in a conversation for the best director of the 21st century imo, if not the best. His films are not only some of the most beautiful but they are full of depth and layers and they are masterfully constructed with clear overall vision and structuring and development that supports it. Every detail is always meaningful and plays a part and is in function of the bigger picture. He is a master of pacing, his cinematography is beautiful, his style is pretty static but always great framing, great shots, always masterful lighting, colors… His resume is not the most rich in terms of quantity so I don’t know how that limits his positioning on these types of lists but when it comes to the craft of filmmaking he is one of the best modern directors.
@Njegos- Thank you for visiting the site and for sharing this here
How About Cary Joji Fukunaga?
Top 5:
1.Jane Eyre(2011)
2.Beasts of No Nation(2015)
3.True Detective(2014)
4.No Time to Die(2021)
5.Sin Nombre(2009)
His top 5 is strong. What do you think?
@Malith – for sure – very strong. Has not become the next Denis Villeneuve quite yet- but still – look forward to each new project.
Didn’t Victor Sjöström make this list?
@Malith- it is a miss for sure- but there were a few. Sjöström will certainly be on the next update
Directors with the most archivable films:
1.Woody Allen – 34
2.Alfred Hitchcock – 33
3.Ingrid Bergman – 31
3.John Ford – 31
5.Akira Kurosawa – 27
6.Martin Scorsese – 24
7.Steven Spielberg – 23
8.Howard Hawks – 21
9.Jean-Luc Godard – 20
9.Steven Soderbergh – 20
9.John Huston – 20
What is an archivable film?
Film with a grade of R or higher
I see. Any thoughts on the comparison to another similar list I posted below?